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NBA Draft
May 14, 2020 8:03:01 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on May 14, 2020 8:03:01 GMT -5
Figured since we are all hoopheads and there's not much else going on in sports at the moment, might as well have a thread for the NBA Draft. Also helps to chat about incoming rookies for the hoops league. www.tankathon.com/mock_draftSo far out of this draft class I think I like Obi Toppin (homer-ish pick, local team) and Onyeka Okongwu best. In a draft like this without a LBJ, Luka, Zion or AD type guy, I'd prefer a guy who I know exactly what he's going to be over "upside". At their best I think Toppin could be an Amare type or at least what we all hoped Jabari Parker would've been. And Okongwu looks like he could potentially end up as Bam 2.0.
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Post by doakley8 on May 14, 2020 8:18:53 GMT -5
I like Obi too.
I was disappointed in Cole Anthony's year at UNC. He's a shoot first PG, forces shots, takes bad shots, and turns it over. I see him shooting around 40%. I wouldn't take him top 5. I'd take Ball over him for sure.
If Ball can mature and not play with the silly antics..I think he's going to be good.
and I follow top prospects pretty decent that are going to the NBA..and there's only about 10 on that list I know for certain.
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Post by varsity on May 14, 2020 10:26:38 GMT -5
I'm probably most intrigued by LaMelo and Wiseman. For LaMelo, I'm rooting for the kid because I think his father is an ass that selfishly rerouted his career for his own reasons. So part of me hopes he pans out.
For Wiseman, I want to see if he lives up the hype as well. But I'm more interested to see if he does land with a team like Golden State, how much more dominant are they going to be. Losing Klay and Steph this year was almost like a blessing for them especially if the season gets cancelled. Now they get to come back healthy next year with Andrew Wiggins and if they land a player like Wiseman, that's a tough starting 5.
Wiseman Green Wiggins Klay Steph
Most of my interest in this draft is going to be the teams not the players.
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Post by eddieeddie on May 14, 2020 11:02:08 GMT -5
If Ball can mature and not play with the silly antics..I think he's going to be good.
LaMelo Ball is basically Lonzo Ball with the similar intrigue over his blend of size + playmaking with a questionable outside shot. Key difference is Lonzo was a way better defender BUT I think LaMelo comes in with less fanfare and less distraction - and hopefully Lavar doesn't rear his ugly head come draft time and start rambling about trying to get him to the Knicks the same way he did Lonzo with the Lakers. That said, wouldn't shock me if he does land in NY, he struggles/disappoints and then is traded 2 years later and flourishes in a less demanding market.
It really is a shame we didn't get to see Obi Toppin and Dayton in the NCAA Tourney. They certainly had a deep run in them and had they won it all, what an amazing story that would have been. Toppin looks like he isn't just NBA ready but also fits the prototypical PF in today's NBA with his athleticism, his range and his work on both ends.
The name that intrigues me is Deni Advija. Maybe it's because of Luka. Maybe it's the Last Dance reminding me how good Toni Kukoc was. Maybe it's because his dad was also a pro player and I feel like bloodlines are always a compelling story. I just feel like this guy is going to be solid. Then again he could be Jan Vesely or Mario Hezonja.
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Post by doakley8 on May 14, 2020 11:28:36 GMT -5
Yea, I remember Melo more as the high school kid that cherry picked on defense and scored 80 points or whatever and never got back on defense and just had layups. He'll have his bad shot selections, and some flashy plays. But I too see low FG% and high turnovers, and poor defense.
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 17, 2020 10:12:44 GMT -5
Lottery is this Thursday apparently
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 11:45:30 GMT -5
Lottery is at 5:30PT right before the Lakers game
In terms of the NBA standings, the order is:
Golden State Warriors 14.0% chance to pick first overall Cleveland Cavaliers 14.0% Minnesota Timberwolves 14.0% Atlanta Hawks 12.5% Detroit Pistons 10.5% New York Knicks 9.0% Chicago Bulls 7.5% Charlotte Hornets 6.0% Washington Wizards 4.5% Phoenix Suns 3% San Antonio Spurs 2% Sacramento Kings 1.5% New Orleans Pelicans 1% Boston Morons (from Memphis Grizzlies - Top 4 protected, 2.4%) - 0.5%
If I had to guess just for randomness, I predict the Top 4 and potential targets being:
Cleveland - Anthony Edwards
New York - LaMelo Ball
San Antonio - Obi Toppin
Golden State - James Wiseman
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NBA Draft
Aug 20, 2020 12:28:25 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on Aug 20, 2020 12:28:25 GMT -5
I'm actually pretty intrigued by the idea of LaMelo in GS. If they are truly returning to the pre-KD motion offense, Ball learning at the foot of Kerr and Curry and running the second unit could be a lot of fun.
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 13:36:27 GMT -5
Also Steph Curry and Klay are turning 33 and 31 early next year. They could draft LaMelo to anchor the 2nd unit and by the time his rookie contract is over or maybe even sooner, it's largely possible - if not highly likely - there'd be a starting spot waiting for him. Kind of like Harden biding his time behind Westbrook/Sefolosha in OKC - except the Warriors don't stupidly trade him after his third season.
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Post by varsity on Aug 20, 2020 16:15:04 GMT -5
Just to play the game, I'm going with:
1. Detroit 2. Cleveland 3. Golden State 4. Minny
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 16:39:33 GMT -5
The teams that badly need to move up are Detroit and Charlotte if only to inject some talent on to those sad sack rosters.
It's not Zion or Luka or anything but an Anthony Edwards on Detroit or a LaMelo Ball on Charlotte could go a long way towards invigorating those franchises.
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NBA Draft
Aug 20, 2020 17:01:16 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on Aug 20, 2020 17:01:16 GMT -5
I'll go:
1) Golden State 2) Cleveland 3) Charlotte 4) NY
NBA gifts high picks to Jordan in the year of The Last Dance, NY to help recruit FAs in 2021 and restocks the GS dynasty. No more ratings problems, HOORAY!
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 19:49:35 GMT -5
Golden State Warriors Minnesota Timberwolves
Chicago Bulls Charlotte Hornets
5 Cleveland Cavaliers- triple ouch
6 Atlanta Hawks
7 Detroit Pistons 8 New York Knicks - double ouch9 Washington Wizards 10 Phoenix Suns 11 San Antonio Spurs
12 Sacramento Kings 13 New Orleans Pelicans 14 Boston Celts
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NBA Draft
Aug 20, 2020 19:51:33 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on Aug 20, 2020 19:51:33 GMT -5
Nailed Charlotte! Definitely part of the contract for ESPN and the NBA getting The Last Dance lol
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 19:54:48 GMT -5
4: Bulls 3: Hornets 2: Warriors 1: Wolves
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 20:01:18 GMT -5
Honestly, if I'm the Wolves, I offer up the huge expiring of James Johnson (16M) and the #1 pick and look to net an impact player. With Russell/Towns up top and several intriguing young talents in tow (Culver, Okogie, Beasley or Hernangomez if re-signed), they'd do well to make a strong push to win now versus just adding yet another young player to the roster. That said, if they keep the pick, to me the choice would be Edwards. Just put a pure shooter next to Russell/Towns, have Culver bulk up so he can be a defensive stopper at SF, re-sign Juan Hernangomez to start at PF and you have a very talented young lineup to build around and viable depth on the benc.
Irony being Warriors will likely be doing the same thing offering up their huge trade exception and the #2 pick. Aaron Gordon is often thrown around but how about a Myles Turner. They may be intrigued by Ball/Edwards/Wiseman if they stay there. Their first priority looks to be to net a win-now player to go with their aging core and shrinking title window BUT I think once they look at the financial implications of using that TPE, they may reconsider the luxury of having a high upside young talent locked up for four years on that rookie deal. Like LaMelo for reasons I said earlier.
I can see Hornets seeking out Toppin or Wiseman at #3. That team badly needs frontcourt talent and them moving up was huge for them. Put Wiseman next to Graham/Rozier/Washington/Bridges and you have something brewing.
As for the Bulls, that's another team that could seek the trade route. LaVine/Markkanen are keepers. Are they completely sold on White/WCJ? If they are, then SF looks like the obvious draft need given I can't imagine they view Otto Porter Jr. as the long term answer. Perhaps Deni Avdija or Isaac Okoro.
If Toppin is there at #5, perhaps Cleveland goes there and they can finally be more proactive in moving Kevin Love. Hawks could go 6'5" PG Haliburton to replace FA Teague and be someone who can play next to Trae.
Pistons I could see going SF so whoever is left between Avdija or Okoro.
Knicks at 8. Because of course they'd slide. This team badly just needs to go BPA. I might be biased but perhaps PF Okongwu from USC. Put him next to Robinson and just have a beast of a frontcourt. Then throw your mounds of free agent money at perimeter players to put next to poor RJ Barrett,
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 20, 2020 20:55:49 GMT -5
Although my bay area friends - or socal friends who support the warriors - are 100% convinced Wiseman is the only choice.
Not sure why, after watching this team the last few years, they suddenly think a "stud big man" is a huge need. That team would be perfectly fine next season with Dray, Chriss, Paschall, Looney at PF/C flanked by a couple random low cost veterans. Like when they got Cauley-Stein before trading him.
That team is all about their perimeter firepower and adding LaMelo Ball to back up and eventually replace an aging Curry coming off an injury plagued season would be a prudent short and long term move.
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Post by varsity on Aug 20, 2020 21:24:41 GMT -5
If I'm the Knicks, I'd make an aggressive offer with Golden State to move up who may be tempted to move down. For a team with significant luxury tax payments the next 3-4 years with Curry, Klay, Draymond and Wiggins on the roster, paying the #2 pick is almost twice as much as the #8 pick. Taking Ball or Edwards is a great move for the future but are you willing to pay them almost 18 million dollars (luxury tax included) with hopes in 3-4 years they are ready to transition. Not to mention the Warriors got some solid backcourt play from Jordan Poole and Damion Lee last year while Klay and Steph were out. I'd almost argue backcourt isn't a pressing need assuming those guys are healthy again. But a player at #8 is almost half that (9-10 million once you figure luxury tax) and if you can squeeze the Knicks who are desperate for star talent like LaMelo Ball and fill out that roster with some future draft picks and young talent, I'd look into it. Especially if you can get a player like Mitchell Robinson from them.
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 21, 2020 10:58:55 GMT -5
I view LaMelo Ball as the logical pick for the Warriors IF they stay at #2 but I do agree it's more of a luxury/insurance/long term outlook/excite the fanbase type pick than a pressing need given the Warriors' perimeter depth - although they are more stocked in SG/SF types than actual PGs. Which is why I do believe moving off that pick will be their top priority. Many, myself included, have obviously thrown out for weeks the scenario of trading the pick and their TPE for a proven player. Others have thrown out the scenario of Wiggins and the pick assuming you can find a team that wants the pick that badly that they'd take Wiggins' contract AND give up a good player in return. On twitter a fantasy football analyst was suggesting Wiggins/#2 for Ben Simmons or Jaylen Brown - to which the primary response was "Stick to football". Both ideas are in fact ridiculous as they'd need to aim much lower but he may be on to something because obviously moving Wiggins' contract would be significantly better from a financial standpoint than using the TPE.
If the Wolves go Edwards at #1 or any other situation that has LaMelo Ball available at #2, I can certainly see the Knicks moving up for him. That team is starved for "star power" and drafting say Okongwu at #8 isn't going to excite the moribund fanbase.This is considered to be a lackluster draft so the opportunity cost to go from #8 to #2 shouldn't be as expensive as recent drafts and the Knicks certainly have draft capital to trade.
Here is an interesting thought to tie this all together: Would the Knicks be desperate enough to move up that they'd take on Wiggins into their cap space?
#8, Mitchell Robinson and 2021 Dallas 1st rd pick
for
#2 and Wiggins
Who says no? Warriors get a paramount amount of cap relief as Wiggins is owed more than 90M more than Robinson + the draft slot slide from #2 to #8, get a C with significant upside, get a future 1st and slide just 6 spots in a lackluster draft. Replacing Wiggins won't be that hard at SF as I can see a lot of lineups with Klay at SF to make room for Lee/Poole at SG or bigger lineups with Paschall/Smailagic at SF. Plus they can certainly get a quality SF prospect at #8 like an Okoro, Nesmith or even Advija if he slides.
Knicks never seemed committed to Robinson for one reason or another. They have extra draft capital thanks to various trades so moving that Dallas pick isn't overly harmful. History has shown that no good free agent wants their cap space anyways. So...... they move up to get their guy in Ball at #2 and they get a guy who they can at least sell to their fanbase as a former #1 pick in his prime who can score 20ppg. At least say "Hey, between LaMelo, RJ Barrett, Wiggins, Randle" we can put up some points. Defense Schmefense.
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NBA Draft
Aug 21, 2020 11:13:04 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on Aug 21, 2020 11:13:04 GMT -5
One thing I would add to that LaMelo to GS, on a more surface level than the financials of it, is that GS is specially equipped for him as opposed to the other franchises picking at the top of the draft.
I saw Ryen Russillo on the Ringer Draft Lottery program last and he was talking about watching Melo play in Australia. The main takeaway being that he basically was a real life version of someone playing with their 2k McCareer player. Jacking up 35 footers 4 seconds into the shot clock, shooting 35 times a night, only acknowledging teammates if it was for the express purpose of throwing a ridiculous circus pass for the highlight reel.
GS, between their management, front office, coaching and players have the weight to suppress that in a way most other teams don't. And they can negate the Lavar Ball of it all in the same way.
Ball goes to GS, he's just another guy on the roster. He goes to Charlotte or NY? He's "the savior" and on 500 billboards and every teammate and coach is falling all over themselves to cater to his every whim. I think if that happens, he may flame out and settle into an Austin Rivers-ish career instead of possibly becoming a star.
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Post by doakley8 on Aug 21, 2020 11:20:23 GMT -5
I think it'll go Edwards, Wiseman, Ball
But wouldn't surprise me if Warriors went Toppin who is a do it all type guy, like Draymond
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 21, 2020 11:55:36 GMT -5
I'd be fairly surprised if the Warriors went Wiseman #2 but he does address their most obvious "positional need". Toppin would be pretty awesome on that team but with Dray starting his new 4 year contract extension, Paschall looking good his rookie year and locked up 2 more years and the team being high on Smailagic locked up 3 more years, drafting a PF would be the opposite of a positional need. This isn't to say they couldn't still draft him and create space for him with subsequent moves.
If Edwards/Wiseman do go 1/2, I am curious if the Hornets go Ball at #3 given their only tangible talent on the roster is in their backcourt with Graham/Rozier. To Thundercats' point, if Ball ends up on Jordan's team, the hype and the pressure is going to be next-level and he could flame out hard. If there was ever a team that just needed to make the boring, safe pick, it might be Charlotte with Toppin over Ball in this scenario.
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Post by varsity on Aug 21, 2020 12:39:57 GMT -5
GS, between their management, front office, coaching and players have the weight to suppress that in a way most other teams don't. And they can negate the Lavar Ball of it all in the same way. Ball goes to GS, he's just another guy on the roster. He goes to Charlotte or NY? He's "the savior" and on 500 billboards and every teammate and coach is falling all over themselves to cater to his every whim. I think if that happens, he may flame out and settle into an Austin Rivers-ish career instead of possibly becoming a star. I think if you are Golden State, you have no interest in trying to negate or handle Lavar Ball. So while LaMelo may be just another guy on the roster, that also assumes he's able to handle being another guy on the roster. His father being able to handle that. This is a kid who pretty much went overseas to be "the guy." I would need to be convinced that he can handle not being the guy for 3-4 years. I think if you gave him the preference: Golden State or Charlotte... he may very well take Charlotte. I think he would absolutely take New York. I see Wiseman dropping. I just don't think it's enough tape on him for a team like Golden State to take a chance. He's raw and really don't fit their scheme. You can get a more ready player and accumulate some assets in the process by trading down if you are them. Looking at EE's proposal and #2/Wiggins for #8, Robinson and 2021 Dallas pick, if you can also get a player Bobby Portis, you that much better next season which is the goal over the future. In the end, I think LaMelo goes #2 but I don't see it being Golden State. I think if you are them, you have the opportunity to absolutely fleece a team who wants him.
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Post by eddieeddie on Aug 21, 2020 14:35:49 GMT -5
In the end, I think LaMelo goes #2 but I don't see it being Golden State. I think if you are them, you have the opportunity to absolutely fleece a team who wants him.
I could see that team being Cleveland.
Yeah they've used their last two high draft picks on PGs in Sexton and Garland but Sexton is honestly more of a SG and a Sexton/Garland backcourt is just way too small leading to defensive issues. I still find it inexplicable they chose Garland over Culver. LaMelo as a 6'8" PG, after some time in the gym, would allow Sexton to play off the ball and should alleviate some of the defensive issues due to the lack of height/length. Plus that's another team that could be looking for a "name" player to invigorate the fanbase after they've lost Lebron and Kyrie in recent years.
Would Cleveland be desperate enough to do say #5 and Garland for #2 for example? The deal doesn't save the Warriors any $ as they eat Garland's remaining rookie deal into their TPE but it does give them that young talented potential PG of the future behind a 32 year old Curry and at #5 they can still land another big time prospect - heck Wiseman could very well be there.
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Post by doakley8 on Sept 16, 2020 13:14:07 GMT -5
November 18th
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 16, 2020 15:07:52 GMT -5
November 18 last year, the Lakers were playing their 16th regular season game. Just adds to how crazy things are right now with the schedule due to the pandemic.
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 22, 2020 13:33:05 GMT -5
Date confirmed. "Held" at ESPN's studios in Bristol, CT in terms of where Silver/Tatum will announce picks but obviously will be virtual like the NFL draft.
Kind of depressing to think the NFL Draft was back in April and here we are 6 months later and really little progress has been made on the safety of events such as this but such is the state of things.
As of now the Lakers have the #28 pick but I could easily see that being moved.
Same time I could also easily see the Lakers finding their way into the 2nd round like they did last year for Horton-Tucker. Philly as 4 2nd rd picks. Sacramento and New Orleans have 3. The Morons have 4 picks in total. The Warriors have #2 but also two late 2nd rounders. Charlotte, NY and MIN have 3 total picks. So there could be some moves to be had if the Lakers find someone they like.
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Post by doakley8 on Oct 22, 2020 15:27:02 GMT -5
That's for sure going to be one draft where I just watched the first 4-5 picks, and see the results in the morning
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 22, 2020 16:14:31 GMT -5
That's for sure going to be one draft where I just watched the first 4-5 picks, and see the results in the morning
I think because in general I didn't truly follow college basketball until the NCAA Tourney and that was obviously scrapped this year, I have little familiarity with any prospects aside from what I read online. There is no DeAndre Hunter or Jarrett Culver or Ja Morant who flashed big time in March.
Hell, I actually know next to nothing. I know OF LaMelo Ball but I don't actually know anything about LaMelo Ball the player since he was abroad. If it really came down to it, I really only know about Wiseman because of they hype around him, Toppin because of how overachieving Dayton was and a few others because they either had been playing a few years (Winston over at Michigan State) or played for a high profile school (Tre Jones at Duke, Cole Anthony at UNC).
I'll watch it and probably be responding with "Who?" 3/4 of the time.
Then IF the Lakers keep #28, I'm almost 100% certain I'll respond that way. They might draft some rando like Jay Scrubb or something. 6'6" swingman from JUCO who is freaklishly athletic, good handles, decent range, big time defensive potential because why not. Not like they'd play a rook anyways. Might as well aim high on upside.
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NBA Draft
Oct 22, 2020 18:01:01 GMT -5
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Post by YoungThundercat on Oct 22, 2020 18:01:01 GMT -5
One name I've seen a bunch in the Lakers range is Isaiah Joe from Arkansas. 6'5 guard who in his two years for the Razorbacks put down 37.8% from distance on a positively Harden-esque 9.1 attempts/game. Didn't get to the line very often (2.9 attempts/game) but shot it well enough (82.7%, including a jump to 89% this past season).
Definitely the type of shooter that LA could use now and in the future, although that particular talent may cause him to go higher than projected given the nature of today's NBA.
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