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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 24, 2020 11:27:43 GMT -5
Butler, Bam and Herro are getting all the press but Goran has made so many clutch shots. Since entering the bubble, The Heat are 11-1 when Dragic scores 20+ - with the one loss where he shot 9 for14 en route to 25 points and the rest of the team shot 38%. They only lost by 4 despite VanVleet going bananas. The Heat are 6-5 when he scores less than 20. Not the biggest of sample sizes but point is they need to feed the Dragon
This series has made me really appreciate Butler more too. I mean I always knew he was a solid two way player who worked hard and did so for massive minutes - namely from his days under Thibs. But now I see just how hard he works with the countless hustle plays, I see how much he trusts his teammates (that pass to a cutting Herro as the shot clock was running out was a thing of beauty), I see how he easily he can turn it on in the clutch and make huge shots - plus the confidence he has at the FT line just makes you believe he'll make them and I have no such confidence in Lebron in that respect. I truly believe Butler could be a 25 to 27ppg scorer if he wanted to but that he is happy being a 20ppg guy instead speaks volumes.
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Post by varsity on Sept 24, 2020 12:25:08 GMT -5
Herro plays with a patience that makes him fun to watch. He's sneakily good if that makes any sense. He came up huge last night but I think my favorite was the last play with him cutting and catching a pass from Jimmy to score.
People can say what they want about Jimmy Butler but he's instilled confidence in those young guys to hit those types of shots. They are just a confident group and whether it's L.A. or Denver (assuming Boston doesn't come back), they are going to be tough to play.
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 24, 2020 22:43:16 GMT -5
Denver down 1-3. They have the Lakers right where they want them.
Jokes aside, Lakers did a great job limiting Joker, they got what they wanted with Lebron getting more calls and they got vintage games from Rondo/Howard.
Also, for the Nuggets, Michael Porter Jr. can certainly hit some shots but man his defense and effort overall can be really pathetic at times. And I said before that Gary Harris has been awful and needs to be played less. Well tonight 3 points on 1-5 shooting in 19 minutes. Monte Morris with 12 points 4 assists in 27 minutes. Need to go further towards the latter.
Oh and Danny Green sucks.
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Post by doakley8 on Sept 25, 2020 7:31:23 GMT -5
damnnnnn the Lakers got alot of calls
lol..and I was about to say I expect Malone to complain to the league about fouls like Lakers did for LeBron..then I read the article saying so on ESPN.com
Nugs need a 3rd. Maybe it's Bol Bol in a couple years with the growth of MPJ. But Milsap is done and Harris maybe needs to find a bench role. and need a healthy Barton who they badly miss.
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 25, 2020 23:10:45 GMT -5
Having Hayward back is HUGE for the Morons and now they are more able to bust that Heat zone.
That said, the biggest problem for the Heat wasn't so much what the Morons were doing but more so their abysmal three point shooting. 7 for 36. The Heat really need one of Robinson or Herro to have a big game to close this out. Sure Robinson scored 20 but he didn't shoot overly well on threes and Herro was a non-factor for a lot of the game. Also I think they need to sit Iggy. He's utterly useless on offense and I don't know that he's doing enough on defense to make up for it. They don't even bother guarding him on the perimeter it seems. Crowder also needs to shoot fewer threes. The guy is an atrocious 6 for 33 the last 4 games. Another problem is they got killed on the boards. Maybe dust off Nunn/Olynyk/Derrick Jones for a few minutes longer to add some scoring/size/length and to give Dragic/Butler/Bam some rest so they can be fresh in the 2nd half.
I can easily see this going 7 and at that point it's anyones guess who wins.
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Post by varsity on Sept 27, 2020 0:09:31 GMT -5
Interesting to see where the Nuggets go from here. Some key decisions to be made with Jerami Grant, who played extremely well, and Milsap who will be an unrestricted free agent. With Porter Jr lurking behind them, gotta wonder if the Nuggets break open the bank to keep either one. I can't see them keeping both unless a huge discount is involved.
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 28, 2020 11:41:46 GMT -5
Even though Millsap and Plumlee are off the books providing significant cap relief, Murray's MAX extension kicks in next season and they have the MAX deal for Jokic and sizable deals left in Barton and Harris for two more years. As such I think Denver lets Grant go as his excellent play likely priced himself out of Denver's budget. I can also see Denver wanting Millsap back at a discount but he could probably do better from a contender in terms of $. At age 36 next season, best Denver go younger anyhow. A healthy Barton, a re-signed Craig, an expanded role for MPJ and mixing in Bates-Diop (who could develop into a Grant-type) can probably help address losing Grant and Millsap at the F spots. If they keep Craig, Plumlee, Bol at tolerable costs, expand the roles of MPJ/Monte Morris/Dozier and see what they have in Bates-Diop they'd be in fairly good shape next season. PG: Murray, Morris SG: Harris, Dozier SF: Barton, Craig, Cancar PF: MPJ, Bates-Diop C: Jokic, Plumlee, BolThen fill in the roster with the #22 pick and the MLE etc.
That starting five takes a serious hit on defense BUT oh boy the scoring potential is through the roof.
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 28, 2020 11:51:30 GMT -5
Almost sad the Boston/Miami series didn't go 7. That was fun to watch.
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Post by doakley8 on Sept 28, 2020 11:56:36 GMT -5
Lakers in 5 If the Heat are hitting the 3 in a couple games, Lakers in 6 Miami will throw the kitchen sink at LBJ, so I see him being more looking for the open guy..and will be games where Green/KCP/Kuz aren't hitting..and LBJ will get the blame for being passive. It's setup for AD getting MVP. But LBJ will get a couple triple doubles with the Lakers knocking down perimeter shots I'll be pulling for my guy Jimmy
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 28, 2020 12:25:37 GMT -5
The Heat have the overall talent, outside shooting + playmaking, defensive tenacity, clutch performance and coaching to make it highly competitive every game. They had more talent and depth than Portland, they have more size and better shooting than Houston, they have more experience than Denver.
I think the Lakers win in the end. The question really is whether it goes 4 or 5 versus 6 or 7 and that to me hinges on the 3pt shooting of the role players on both teams. If Caruso/Green/KCP etc. are hitting threes and playing stout defense to slow down the likes of Herro/Robinson/Dragic etc., then that'd be HUGE in ending the series sooner.
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Post by doakley8 on Sept 28, 2020 12:31:09 GMT -5
Well Bam made some plays that even AD or Giannis can make last night. 6 minutes left in the 4th he brought the ball up the court, crossed up a few times, drove right, then did a left handed wrap around pass to Butler for the lay up.
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Post by eddieeddie on Sept 28, 2020 12:54:55 GMT -5
If Miami trots out a lineup of Dragic, Herro, Butler, Iggy, Bam out there, that'll be insanely tough to defend because of the ball movement.
I know I mocked Iggy for his offensive struggles but naturally he's going to be leaned on a ton in the finals to guard Lebron and if he is hitting his shots like last night, he's very likely the X-Factor in the series for Miami.
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Post by varsity on Sept 28, 2020 13:18:30 GMT -5
I think it goes 6 perhaps even 7. If I'm the Lakers, Miami's ball movement would worry me a lot. I think Denver would've been far more competitive if they weren't constantly in foul trouble (mainly Jokic) and they were able to get some production from Harris. When they were playing well, Lakers struggled rotating with them especially when the offense was rolling through Jokic. Plus I think this series the Lakers may need to go smaller more than they did against Denver so that means KCP, Green, Caruso and Morris are going to need contribute more defensively.
In the end I think the Lakers will win because I just think their talent and experience seals the deal. Wouldn't shock me to see Bam struggle a little bit against AD and the combination of Dwight and Javale. So unless Miami gets hot, I see the Lakers taking the crown.
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Post by wareagle on Sept 28, 2020 17:36:37 GMT -5
At least I don’t have to figure out who to root for when it’s Hitler versus Satan.
Heat fan for the next 10 days or so.
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Post by doakley8 on Oct 1, 2020 6:35:53 GMT -5
Just a matter of who gets the MVP now, AD or LBJ
Hate to see injuries
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 1, 2020 11:02:52 GMT -5
Dragic hurt. Bam hurt. Butler hobbled. Green and KCP hitting threes. Herro and Robinson not hitting threes. Lebron and AD just crushing the Heat with their skill and size.
The Heat are a great story and exceeded the wildest of expectations (except for maybe Butler/Riley who just seem that confident) The injuries are unfortunate but part of the game. Ask Kawhi if he cares not facing KD/Klay last year. Ask all the Lebron haters about him facing GSW without Kyrie/Love.
At this stage, it'd be a disappointment if the Lakers don't sweep the Heat.
You'll hear a lot of rumbles about *asterisk title
Let them hate. You can only play the hand you are dealt. If the Lakers win the title, they win the title. And they did it for Kobe.
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 1, 2020 15:37:10 GMT -5
Dragic and Bam likely out for game 2.
Nunn and Olynyk are decent fill-ins but significant step down.
Should be an easy Laker win tomorrow.
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Post by wareagle on Oct 1, 2020 16:50:48 GMT -5
Dragic and Bam likely out for Week 2. Nunn and Olynyk are decent fill-ins but significant step down. Should be an easy Laker win tomorrow. Stupid 2020.
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Post by YoungThundercat on Oct 1, 2020 17:07:18 GMT -5
Dragic hurt. Bam hurt. Butler hobbled. Green and KCP hitting threes. Herro and Robinson not hitting threes. Lebron and AD just crushing the Heat with their skill and size. The Heat are a great story and exceeded the wildest of expectations (except for maybe Butler/Riley who just seem that confident) The injuries are unfortunate but part of the game. Ask Kawhi if he cares not facing KD/Klay last year. Ask all the Lebron haters about him facing GSW without Kyrie/Love. At this stage, it'd be a disappointment if the Lakers don't sweep the Heat. You'll hear a lot of rumbles about *asterisk title Let them hate. You can only play the hand you are dealt. If the Lakers win the title, they win the title. And they did it for Kobe. Flags fly forever. If people want to strip or add asterisks to titles for injuries or good breaks, there's going to be a lot of "Vacant" titles in the history books. Got a guy I work with and talk hoops with that is a Grade A LBJ hater/Kawhi stan (he has now forsaken the Clippers and moved to Brooklyn for next year) and he crows on and on about asterisk title and easiest path ever for LBJ's title.... Can't seem to convince him that if you want to blame someone for it, you can start with the Clippers, Bucks and Morons for all shitting the bed. We made it to the dance, not our fault everyone else couldn't find a cab...
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Post by doakley8 on Oct 5, 2020 7:25:26 GMT -5
I do love me some Jimmy 40-11-13-2-2 Buckets
Too many turnovers, and bad body language because they were losing by a depleted Heat team was showing
**...and DAMN Danny Green can't throw it in the ocean. Dust off JR
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 5, 2020 11:08:58 GMT -5
Terrible look by Lebron as he walked off the court before the game was over and visibly salty en route to the locker room.
Ultimately Lebron will come away with the ring and probably another Finals MVP and in the post-game interview he'll talk about Kobe, his bro AD, his teammates, the LA fans, how tough the bubble was etc etc etc and will get the adoration of Laker fans, will get praised by most of the media not named Skip Bayless and will add further to his already robust legacy. Then there will be those who will talk about how AD was often the better player, how he lucked out in the matchups en route to the title (which is obviously not in his control but the narrative will always be spun to match their agenda), how Butler is far and away a better "leader", how the Lakers never should have lost even one game and how even with this Lebron is still 4-6 in the Finals whereas Jordan was 6-0 etc etc etc. In the end, the immediate truth is somewhere in the middle but that's always fleeting.
10 years from now when Lebron is on the sideline watching Bronny, all people will remember when discussing his status among the legends are his stats and awards and a 4th ring is huge in that it at least gets him out of that big cluster of people who have three - mainly the currently active Warriors guys. 6 with MJ/Kareem may be a lot to ask given his age but a 5th gets him to Kobe, Duncan, Magic. That's huge.
That being said, at least for now, my adoration is not for Lebron or AD but man, Jimmy Butler is the freakin' man. I mean his starting lineup was Duncan "no longer doing the one thing he is expected to do" Robinson, a rookie in Tyler Herro who in spite of his cocky face in the 4th quarter had a terrible game, a midseason acquisition in lifetime role player Jae Crowder and then a C tandem of Meyers Leonard/Kelly Olynyk who look more like contestants on the Bachelor than imposing NBA bigs.
Philadelphia looks beyond stupid for letting this guy go because their organizational dysfunction questioned if they could "control" him. How's that looking right about now trading him for Josh Richardson?
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 6, 2020 23:17:09 GMT -5
Great game and the Heat hung around as long as they could but the end of that game was when they clearly missed Goran Dragic. Not just for his scoring, playmaking and pension for huge clutch threes but they really missed his experience and floor leadership. Herro and Robinson have done admirably but easy to forget Herro is a 20 year old rookie who made mistakes down the stretch and Robinson is a 2nd year player in his first postseason run who tries hard but it won't make up for the limitations in his game and athleticism. A closing lineup of Dragic, Herro, Butler, Crowder, Bam is way more potent.
It's easy to underrate just how big an advantage the Lakers' experience is. Rondo is as grizzled as it gets in terms of postseason experience and boasts a ring. Morris is in his 9th season and 4th playoff run. It's only KCP's 2nd playoff appearance but it's his 7th season. Green's 11th season and he has 2 rings, including last year. Kuz and Caruso are the young ones in their 3rd season and 1st playoff run but they've gotten good runs since the start of their career and life is just easier next to Lebron and AD.
Anyhow, great game. Lakers need to just wrap it up on Friday.
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Post by varsity on Oct 6, 2020 23:22:14 GMT -5
Heat need Game 3 Jimmy Butler and despite his near triple double, I thought he was looking to defer way too much especially in the 4th quarter. The Heat's supporting cast play better Jimmy is drawing attention to him. But when he's in pass mode and constantly looking to get players involved, the Lakers were able to slow the Heat down. Lot of those 4th quarter shots by Robinson and Herro were just tough shots.
KCP and Rondo played huge. Not sure what the Lakers were looking to do in the final minutes but LeBron running the clock down to 8 seconds trying to get a switch looked bad. Luckily they came up some big plays.
Either way it's 3-1. I don't think Miami has enough left in the tank to make it to a Game 7 so I can see it wrapping up Friday.
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 7, 2020 0:01:18 GMT -5
I agree on Butler. He deferred. A lot. He never seemed to get going offensively the way he did Game 3. I wonder if he was just gassed. He did play 45 minutes in Games 2 and 3 and then 43 minutes this game. That's a lot of minutes in a 5 day span for someone who carries a major load on offense + defense.
The game swung basically in that 3 minute to 2 minute mark in the 4th. It was 90-88 Lakers and the Heat had the ball. Anyone's game at that point. Butler misses a wide open three (he was 0 for 3 in the game on threes whereas Lebron/AD were 4 for 9) Fast break Lebron to KCP for a made three 24 second violation on Miami where Bam was like 0.2 seconds late KCP drives past Robinson for a layup. Just like that Lakers up 7 and game looked done at that stage. I mean if Butler makes that three, they hold defensively and then Bam gets the shot off in time, we're talking Miami could be up 93-90 with the Lakers having the ball with 2ish minutes left. Oh well, woulda coulda shoulda.
In the end, good effort by Miami but the Lakers were destined for this ring so long as Lebron/AD stayed healthy.
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Post by doakley8 on Oct 11, 2020 8:51:48 GMT -5
C'mon Jimmy Buckets stretch it to 7!
Butler makes my fav. top 5 with Curry, Klay, Dame, Booker/Embiid
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Post by YoungThundercat on Oct 11, 2020 21:24:29 GMT -5
WE FUCKING DID IT!!!!
Lock this bitch down, mods....
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Post by doakley8 on Oct 12, 2020 9:01:21 GMT -5
So what can they get back for trading Kuz
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 12, 2020 10:07:31 GMT -5
Easy $.
The Heat looked like a junior varsity squad on offense.
A lot of it was the Lakers defensive intensity with the move to Caruso in the starting lineup and having AD stay in the paint more. That said offensively for the Heat.....
Jimmy Buckets was clearly gassed out - and who could blame him with his heavy minutes/responsibilities?
Herro was way over his head crumbling under the pressure - and who could blame him being a 20 year old rookie?
Duncan came crashing down to earth after his Game 5 once the Heat upped their defense on him - and who could blame him being, well, Duncan Robinson?
Bam really needs to develop a jumper to force AD to come out to the perimeter - he's still great but this is a real area of improvement.
Crowder is only good for taking threes, mostly wide open and even then he is mediocre 0 and falling to the ground on drives the basket.
I admire Dragic wanting to come back but he kind of messed up the chemistry. Team would have been better off with more Nunn. Iguodala was useless offensively. Period. 3.2ppg in 19.8mpg. 0 points last 2 games. Heat were essentially 4 on 5 when he was on the court.
In the end, the reality came to be that the overachieving Heat, who should be VERY proud of what they accomplished and their bright future, were simply no match for the Lakers. More talent. More size. More talent. More experience. More talent. Better health. More talent. Better motivation with the pressure of doing it for Kobe, Lebron's dwindling window, AD's hunger for his first title. Did I mention like way more talent?
Big ups to Rondo and KCP.
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Post by eddieeddie on Oct 12, 2020 10:55:34 GMT -5
So what can they get back for trading Kuz
Beats me but if I'm the Lakers I'm offering Kuz, the sizable expiring deal of Danny Green and the #28 pick looking for someone who could be a consistent 15ppg scorer-type. Whether it's a guard or frontcourt player is irrelevant.
And to the wanna-be GMs - whether on legit websites who want clicks, wanna-be websites who rely solely on clickbait articles to begin with, analysts on social media just trying to get likes, armchair GMs on social media who know nothing about reality, deluded Laker fans who never look at if the trade makes sense for the other team: Thinking the above package (+ any necessary contracts to make it work) is enough to get a star like Bradley Beal or anything remotely close to him, please stop it. The Lakers emptied the cupboard for AD. That's fact. Kuz as the centerpiece of any trade simply will not get much. His trade value is pedestrian given he is due an extension after next season and his mediocre playoff performance and all the other stuff tied to him (inconsistent defender and 3pt shooter etc).
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Post by YoungThundercat on Oct 12, 2020 11:09:50 GMT -5
Now the 100 million dollar question becomes: where does LA go from here?
Obviously a large part of the core of the team shouldn't go anywhere, so you're looking to upgrade around the edges in the Cook, McGee, Smith, Waiters, Dudley, Morris spots. And with no Kawhi-type holding your gaze while good role players fly off the board + the bump that comes with being defending champs, I would think Pelinka will strike quickly in FA.
The obvious first order of business should be shooting. I'll probably start my EE-esque deep dive into the cap situation tonight, but off the top of my head there is shooting to be had in UFA. Whether it's big $ fish like Joe Harris or Davis Bertans (both unlikely for the Lakers), or more reasonable targets like DJ Augustin, Kyle Korver, Marco Bellinelli, E'Twaun Moore... having the ability to put buckets up outside of defense-to-offense transition and LBJ barrelling into the paint would make life so much easier next year.
I would personally move Kuzma, since I cannot imagine you are interested in giving him even a "reasonable" long term extension after next season. Problem being he makes too little money to match salaries with anybody that could help. So maybe you explore using him to help get off Danny Green's money for next year...
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