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Post by YoungThundercat on Jun 16, 2021 18:09:07 GMT -5
Being a basketball fan, first and foremost...I concur on the Suns/Nets series being what I'm pulling for.
Being a Lakers fan second...as long as the Clippers lose (preferably to Utah to keep their 0 WCF stat), I'm pretty good with whatever outcome.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 16, 2021 18:33:54 GMT -5
Potential Finals matchup
9 man rotations
SUNS SL: CP3, Book, Bridges, Crowder, Ayton 2nd: Payne, Craig, Cam Johnson, Saric
NETS SL: Kyrie, Harden, Harris, KD, Griffin 2nd: Shamet, Bruce Brown, Jeff Green, Claxton
If Kyrie/Harden aren't quite 100% with their ankle/hamstring issues, this could be a really close matchup. KD is obviously hands down the best player but that CP3/Book/Ayton trio can be formidable if KD's own big 3 isn't at full strength and Crowder is certainly one of the better options at harassing KD - albeit he'd probably be about as effective as Tucker, which isn't saying much.
I'd still vote Nets but it'd be in 6 or maybe even 7.
But we'll see. The Nets still need to finish off the Bucks and then Sixers/Hawks and the Suns need to beat Jazz/Clippers, which shouldn't be a foregone conclusion - esp. if Conley is up and running by then.
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Post by varsity on Jun 16, 2021 21:54:02 GMT -5
It may be time to gauge the market for Ben Simmons.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 0:21:13 GMT -5
That Sixers 4th quarter collapse was pretty bad. Only Curry and Embiid came to play - and they were the only ones to score a bucket in the 2nd half, which is inexplicable. We know Simmons is limited offensively but Harris going for 4 points 11 shots in 38 minutes is just bad. Meanwhile for the Hawks, Trae got help with Collins, Gallo and sweet Lou. That'd be awesome if the Hawks closed it out Game 6 on the home court.
Then the Jazz lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers at home. Gotta hand it to PG. He still made his usual set of dumbass turnovers but he came up huge with 37-16-5 on 12-22 shooting. Morris and RJackson also had a great games. Toss in the defense and hustle from Batum and Mann and that was enough to pull out a surprising win. Helped Bogdanovic and Clarkson's hot shooting slowed down in the 2nd half, Mitchell didn't have a good offensive game and the Clippers managed to mitigate Gobert's impact despite mostly going small.
We'll see if the Clippers can close it out Friday and make the WCF.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 0:24:15 GMT -5
It may be time to gauge the market for Ben Simmons.
If the Sixers do shop Ben, which they very well might if they want to shake up it should they fail to make it past the 2nd round for the 4th year in a row, just send him to Toronto in a S&T involving Lowry.
For example Lowry, Boucher and 2021 1st rd pick (currently #7 pre-lottery).
For Philly, it's far from ideal to trade a 24 year old star for a 35 year old PG but if the team is impatient to get over the hump in the postseason, few options are better than Lowry - and why they pursued him via trade - and putting him with Embiid, Harris, Seth Curry, Thybulle, Hill, Maxey, Milton, Boucher and a high pick (and whomever they re-sign among Green, Kormaz, Scott ) etc makes them a formidable and more balanced team.
For Toronto, a core of Ben, FVV, Siakam and OG is super solid and young with Ben at 24, FVV at 26, Siakam at 26 and OG at 23.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 6:10:38 GMT -5
Woke up this morning after turning the Sixers game off with 6 minutes left in the 3rd, and not watching the Clippers game
"WTF"
"4-14!"
"Playoff P?!"
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 7:08:39 GMT -5
I'd much rather have Boucher and #7 than Simmons. FVV can't shoot, Simmons don't wanna shoot bc he can't. So while they would be great defensively..I think Boucher is going to be a stud. But I see what you mean as far as throwing something out there.
I still hope Nate mucks it up a bit and goes to fouling Simmons if it's close in game 6..and see how Doc reacts if he brings in George Hill
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 10:44:47 GMT -5
I'd much rather have Boucher and #7 than Simmons. FVV can't shoot, Simmons don't wanna shoot bc he can't. So while they would be great defensively..I think Boucher is going to be a stud. But I see what you mean as far as throwing something out there.
I like Boucher's potential and the lure of a high draft pick as much as anyone but for all of Simmons' warts, literally no one is not making that trade.
You need to stop letting fantasy stats cloud your judgment Oak haha. VanVleet is very much a good shooter. Career 38.4% on threes. His overall FG% is dragged down because 54.7% of his shots were threes this season. Up from 48.4% and 49.3% the last 2 seasons. So it's really the math when you take that many lower percentage shots. That said, if we're talking offensive issues, he sucks close to the rim. On jumpers, his efficiency is similar to Trae/Booker but closer he trails behind them. Way behind. He's small and blows layups - easy and hard, gets shots blocked, takes awkward close shots against bigger players or due to indecisiveness once he gets to the rim. In other words, he's a bad finisher.
By contrast, we know Simmons is an awful shooter but he's exceptionally solid up close. He still takes a decent enough amount of jumpers - that he bricks most -but his high overall FG% is an indicator of his high efficiency close to the rim.
So in actuality Simmons and FVV would kind of make sense as a backcourt because of their contrasting strengths/weaknesses on offense. FVV might actually be a more efficient scorer playing off the ball and focusing less on playmaking and Simmons would benefit from the spacing with a lineup that features outside threats with FVV, Siakam and OG.
That being said, I can't imagine the Sixers - regardless of their desperation level - trading Simmons for the much older Lowry. Even if the championship window is strengthened, it shortens the window significantly. IF they trade Simmons, have to figure they'd target someone notably younger than Lowry. [cue the Laker fans suggesting Schroder via S&T + Kuz for Simmons]
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 11:39:54 GMT -5
lmao..I'm totally going off fantasy, and all I know is FVV was having some 4-22 and 5-24 shooting nights. My man couldn't throw it in the ocean so he had to go.
Man Simmons is frustrating to watch. shot ZERO attempts in the 4th quarter the last 2 games..and we all know the free throws. But if he's 6'10...hell..you're Lamar Odom..get on the damn block dude. Post up the guards, not a fadeaway bail out. Short jump hook, drop step to your strong hand. Something!
I mean his form looks ok..it's flat as hell,..line drives..but he has a good follow through. Just work on getting the ball up. Hell practice shooting like Curry when he throws it 30 feet up in the air to make it. I dunno...he just doesnt seem to have the fight..the dog in him to be aggressive..and he sure as hell can't create his own shot.
He's Doc's boy..he loves him, so he aint going anywhere..but none of the summer league pick up games, open gym running..work on your jumper dude.
and I don't even want him as my 5th keeper!, (Fantasy reference)
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 11:56:46 GMT -5
Crazy how many players are like FVV with that 3pt volume
I get it if you're like a Joe Harris, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Davis Bertans, Patty Mills-type
But guys like.....
Devonte Graham 37.7 overall FG% 37.5 3fg%
Took 12.2 shots a game, 8.7 were threes
Lonzo Ball 41.4 overall FG%, 37.8 3fg% Took 12.7 shots a game, 8.3 were threes
Crazy
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Post by varsity on Jun 17, 2021 12:00:58 GMT -5
That being said, I can't imagine the Sixers - regardless of their desperation level - trading Simmons for the much older Lowry. Even if the championship window is strengthened, it shortens the window significantly. IF they trade Simmons, have to figure they'd target someone notably younger than Lowry. [cue the Laker fans suggesting Schroder via S&T + Kuz for Simmons]
*CJ McCollum enters the chat*
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 12:05:54 GMT -5
"Enters D'Antoni"
"Get my a PG that can shoot 3's, I don't care if Ben can play defense"
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Post by varsity on Jun 17, 2021 12:13:45 GMT -5
"Enters D'Antoni" "Get my a PG that can shoot 3's, I don't care if Ben can play defense" Portland is perfect as constructed for D'Antoni. They don't play any defense and I'm sure we can get Covington to hoist it up behind the arc 10 shots a game.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 12:16:22 GMT -5
I agree 100%, He'd play Convington at the 5 and try and move Nurkic
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 12:26:06 GMT -5
I agree 100%, He'd play Convington at the 5 and try and move Nurkic
Nurkic and DJJ to Washington for Davis Bertans and Thomas Bryant
Dame, CJ, Powell, Covington, Bertans
D'Antoni would say "Hey, Bertans is 6'11" alright, get off my back"
Meanwhile, Bombs away!
(Obviously a joke/hypothetical but for WAS a lineup of Russ, Beal, Avdija/DJJ, Rui, Nurkic is a definite upgrade)
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Post by varsity on Jun 17, 2021 14:43:05 GMT -5
Ben Simmons in the last (2) 4th quarters is 0 for 0 from the field. Hasn't shot the ball once.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 15:28:43 GMT -5
Rick Carlisle — who led Dallas to the 2011 NBA championship — informed Mavericks owner Mark Cuban today that he won’t be returning as coach next season, Carlisle told ESPN. Carlisle had two years left on his contract. He spent 13 seasons as Mavericks coach
Damn?! Kidd back in Dallas? or...will Cuban look to break barriers and go with Weatherspoon or Hammon. What's going in Dallas? Just trade Zingis and get a 2nd and 3rd option.
PS: Over/Under Carlisle back to Boston, he had to want to leave Mavs if he thought he could get the C's
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Post by varsity on Jun 17, 2021 16:09:09 GMT -5
13 years is a long time. He's got a championship and more than likely will be a HOF coach (definitely inducted in the Mavs ring of fire). And it looks like the voice of that team is changing to what Luka wants. If he's still interested in coaching, I can see him getting an opportunity.
Word is Michael Finley is one of the front runners for GM.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 16:34:04 GMT -5
A lot of attractive job openings right now with Boston. Dallas. Indiana. New Orleans. Portland. You can coach Tatum, Luka, Zion, Dame, Sabonis and other stars/young risers.
Orlando is a nice spot for a young coach open to growing with the team through a rebuild. Young talent with Fultz, Isaac, Anthony, Okeke Hampton, Bamba, WCJ (with health being the biggest issue). Potential top 3 pick this year and net positive 3 1st rd picks and 5 2nd rd picks in the future. Looking at nice cap space in 2022. IF Becky Hammon were to get a shot, this might be it because I feel like the less pressure on her, the better.
Washington is a playoff team with some viable talent but I wouldn't be that excited with that situation.
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Post by varsity on Jun 17, 2021 17:46:46 GMT -5
A lot of attractive job openings right now with Boston. Dallas. Indiana. New Orleans. Portland. You can coach Tatum, Luka, Zion, Dame, Sabonis and other stars/young risers. Orlando is a nice spot for a young coach open to growing with the team through a rebuild. Young talent with Fultz, Isaac, Anthony, Okeke Hampton, Bamba, WCJ (with health being the biggest issue). Potential top 3 pick this year and net positive 3 1st rd picks and 5 2nd rd picks in the future. Looking at nice cap space in 2022. IF Becky Hammon were to get a shot, this might be it because I feel like the less pressure on her, the better. Washington is a playoff team with some viable talent but I wouldn't be that excited with that situation. I hope Becky Hammon gets a shot but I'd like to see it with the Spurs once Pop leaves. I think if you throw her in a spot like Orlando and it goes bad, it may hurt the chances for women coaches in the NBA. That's not a direct shot at her coaching ability but we all know stable organizations help young coaches tremendously. That team has let to really nail a top draft pick with the exception of Aaron Gordon and Dwight Howard (though Cole Anthony looks good) and they always overpay for mediocre free agents. I agree the pressure may not be there on her to win right away but I also wonder if she doesn't win, how will that affect other women coaching as well. Boston, Dallas and New Orleans are probably the most intriguing to me. Followed by Portland and Washington. I think the latter two have some serious roster issues that need to be addressed. I'm pulling for Billups and Sam Cassell to get a shot. I know D'Antoni and Kidd are going to be hot names but I think the right situation those two could flourish as well as Hammon.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 17, 2021 18:36:47 GMT -5
Most definitely agree big picture that San Antonio is the absolute best spot for Hammon given her time there and that it's also a rebuilding team at this stage, assuming they move on from DeRozan and/or don't make hasty win-now moves this summer. Curious how much longer Pops intends to stay but may be in the best interest of Hammon to hang around in the event she is the heir. Clearly the city/organization has already accepted her as an AC, so it'd be the "easiest" transition for making history as an HC.
It's not happening but it'd be fun if Dame demanded out and POR/PHI engaged in Dame for Simmons talks (with salary filler like Nassir Little/George Hill)
Put Simmons in a lineup with CJ, Powell, Covington, Nurkic and I actually think that lineup is very intriguing because the defense is vastly improved, shot attempts become available to make Nurk happy and justify paying Powell, and there is enough outside shooting to allow Simmons to focus on passing and scoring down low. Not saying them losing Dame is positive by any stretch but as it relates to balance, defense, size, youth, it could be a positive change.
But really I just think it'd be fun to put Dame with Seth Curry, Harris, Embiid and just go wild on offense and just stick Thybulle in there for a defensive stopper.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 17, 2021 20:39:37 GMT -5
Why don't the Nets just play zone? Push Gianis outside of the paint, I can't stand watching this lol. Run a high 2-3 zone and when he starts bulldozing in, close it off. Dennis Rodman would have him fouled out in 15 minutes.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 18, 2021 21:16:54 GMT -5
It may be time to gauge the market for Ben Simmons. +1 after watching the liability of Simmons in the 4th. Damn Doc doesn't even trust him
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 19, 2021 11:49:31 GMT -5
After strong performances in the clutch in Games 4 and 5, Hawks collapsed pretty bad late in Game 6. Pathetic FT and 3PT shooting, lame defense (how about you guard that dude with the last name Curry at the 3pt line?) and showed lackadaisical effort on the boards. People will cite youth but they have several veterans and it's not like Trae/Collins/Huerter are rookies. If I had to bet $, Sixers win Game 7 at home and Hawks blew their chance at an upset. Hope I'm wrong though.
As for the Clippers, I didn't rule them out after losing Kawhi but that was more because I felt Utah was vulnerable more than actual faith in the Clippers. That performance by Mann stunned everyone and even Mitchell in his post game conference was expressing how unprepared they were for that. Have to had it to PG, after all the jokes about Pandemic P and the chants of overrated, the guy came up big when needed. 37-16-5 in 40 minutes in Game 5 and 28-9-7 in 46 minutes last night.
With Clips vs Suns, big question is the status of CP3. If he misses games, then definitely helps mitigate the absence of Kawhi and evens things out.
I think Bucks win tonight unfortunately. I just don't think KD has enough help with Kyrie out, Harden not 100% and no one else really stepping up. They'll need solid games from Blake and Harris and some of that Game 5 magic from Jeff Green to pull it out.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 19, 2021 13:59:45 GMT -5
It may be time to gauge the market for Ben Simmons. +1 after watching the liability of Simmons in the 4th. Damn Doc doesn't even trust him
Sixers were way better with Maxey on the court. His strength coming out of college was his elite defensive potential. If the team has faith in his offensive potential, Maxey may really be a better option at PG alongside Harris/Embiid. Now this isn't to say they should just cast aside Simmons but it'd make moving him for an upgrade elsewhere a more viable option.
For example CJ McCollum as Vars mentioned. If they go Maxey, CJ, Thybulle, Harris, Embiid as their starting 5, I think there is a much stronger balance between offense and defense in there than the existing unit.
Of course the Sixers could go on to beat the Hawks tomorrow and go on to win the NBA Finals and Simmons could play somewhat good and render this all moot.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 19, 2021 18:16:57 GMT -5
I watched Simmons every move in the 4th since we were talking about it. As soon as he went 2 for 4 on back to back hack a Ben, Doc rushed to get a sub with 6 minutes left after a dead ball. He came back in with 2 minutes left...and never touched the ball. He didn't bring the ball up, and just stood there looking for somebody to set a screen for. When Hawks scored..Ben ran to take the ball out so they couldn't foul him. He fills the Stat sheet..but he's tradeable for me. I think it'll be the same for game 7. Doc needs to go with Howard the first 3 or 4 minutes in the 4th, so Embiid isn't gassed in crunch time.
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Post by YoungThundercat on Jun 20, 2021 5:49:50 GMT -5
What a game. What a series.
Naturally, everyone is going to do all their memeing of BKN in the wake of this but I really had two takeaways from this series:
1) MIL is definitely a better team when having Middleton initiate the offense instead of Giannis. Hopefully that's something that continues for the rest of the playoffs and into next season as well.
2) Even though I despise the conversations about the GOAT or individual "legacies"... I don't think that it's outrageous to say that KD did more for his "legacy" in this series than even the two Finals MVP runs with GS. To be put in the position where you HAVE to be superhuman to even compete and then doing it only two years removed from an Achilles injury....KD is absolutely the best individual player in the NBA right now and should be respected even more by fans after this, although he won't...because... "He's a snake" memes.
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Post by doakley8 on Jun 20, 2021 11:41:03 GMT -5
I was pulling for the Nets like it was 2002 Lakers. I don't hate Giannis, respect how good he is..I just hate watching how he goes about it. And right now I wanna be entertained, so now I'm pulling for Embiid and watch the Simmons circus. I think Clippers can get past Suns without Kawhi..if CP3 misses 2 games.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 20, 2021 12:42:20 GMT -5
KD was amazing. He was just massively let down by his team. We've seen it happen with every superstar. People will say "Well if KD is so great, then why does he need a super team?" Does anyone remember the MJ-led Bulls teams before Pippen/Phil Jackson? Or the Kobe years post-Shaq and pre-Pau? Or some of Lebron's teams ravaged by injuries or besieged by idiots like JR Smith? Countless examples. Not that all these teams were "super" but the NBA is not meant for just one stud and then a bunch of role players to win the title. Heck Wilt had a season where he averaged 44.8ppg 24.3rpg and his team went 31-49 and missed the playoffs. Who won the title? The Morons and their merry band of hall of famers.
I agree that for anyone paying attention, this should elevate KD in their eyes as an individual player. Just like what Lebron did in the 2015 finals. People are haters when they harp on series losses without context. For KD: No Kyrie. Clearly less than 100% Harden who was awful offensively last night. Joe Harris is getting slammed on social media and rightfully so, he was terrible this series and missed HUGE threes that honestly would have sent the Nets to the Conference Finals had he made them, including a wide open clutch three in OT. Being an elite 3pt shooter is meaningless if you can't do it consistently in the postseason. It's legitimately your one job you are getting paid a ton to do. If I'm KD, I'm telling this guy to stay away from me for a while. I know Bruce Brown scored 14 but the guy didn't look to create for himself and often was quick to pass up open shots to pass to someone else. The bench scored ZERO points. The team sucked on the boards. His most reliable sidekick was Blake Griffin, who was off the floor in the clutch because he fouled out. Again.
Congrats to Milwaukee. Granted they didn't face "the Nets" so much as they faced "KD and some dudes" but a lot of champions get lucky at some point en route to the title, so it's just par for the course.
While PHI vs MIL will be a more competitive series on paper, still rooting for the Hawks.
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Post by eddieeddie on Jun 20, 2021 13:38:34 GMT -5
As an aside, totally forgot DeAndre Jordan was on the Nets.
Pretty amazing how he goes from starting 43 games (7.5ppg 7.5rpg 1.1bpg 76.3fg% in 21.9mpg) to being a DNP-CD the last week of the season and the entire playoffs and he has to sit there and watch the team prefer to go with Blake Griffin, Jeff Green and Nicolas Claxton up front. The Nets had the worst rebounding differential of a playoff team that made the 2nd round and tied for worst in allowing offensive boards with the Hawks. Not saying DJ would have made a world of difference but just interesting that for an opponent boasting as much size and length as Giannis/B.Lopez up front, they couldn't dust off their best low post defender for rebounding and rim protection. I mean Brook Lopez had two games where he grabbed 11 rebounds in the Nets series. He had 3 such games in the 74 games leading up. Giannis averaged 12.9 rebounds. Granted he averaged 15 against Miami but that was a team that was always small.
I mean, DJ and his 2 years 19.7M has to be on the trading block this summer right? They'll probably offer #27 as an incentive to some under the cap team to take DJ off their hands for luxury tax relief so they can try and re-sign some of their guys like Bruce Brown, Blake Griffin, Jeff Green and potentially do a S&T using Dinwiddie. I'm sure OKC's GM is like "Did somebody say draft pick?"
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